Re: (pacsec bonus) Re: VMWare Detection?

[Stef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Comments in-line

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:36:04 -0600, Lance Spitzner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lots of great discussions and tools demonstrated on detecting the use
> of VMware.  Some pondering, if I may.
> 
> - In reference to honeypots, is the detection of VMware a bad thing?
> Okay, the attacker gains access and identifies the system is using
> VMware.  Lots of legitimate organizations use VMware, the economics of
> virtualization can be a big motivator.  In fact, this will potentially
> grow.  So, I would contend that the detection of VMware does not
> automatically mean honeypot.

Perfectly true! In fact none of our VMWare [production!] machines are
honeypots - honeypots are everything BUT virtualized environments of
any sort. By the way - if not willing or - even worse - not paying
attention to changing them - the MAC addresses would betray VMWare,
also ;)
( http://www.giac.org/practical/GCIA/Dana_Webber_GCIA.pdf and
http://tinyurl.com/566lw )

> - If an attacker does detect VMware, and assume its a honeypot and
> leaves the system, does this mean that VMware is  potentially more
> secure for production systems?
> 

If that would be true, then I would really move all my servers to VMWare ...

> - If attackers or automated threats do begin running automated
> detection mechanisms for VMware, would it not then be possible to put
> those very same signatures into legitimate systems, so threats now
> avoid them?
> 

Yes!!! ... or at least I hope so (see previous point) ...

> I'm not attempting to downplay the detection issue, but just some
> random thoughts.
> 
> lance

All very good points, Lance, and the more so that people - for
whatever reasons - seem to equate VMWare with HONeypot (VMW = HON :))

Stef

> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 16, 2004, at 16:35, Kurt Seifried wrote:
> 
> > Computer BIOS
> > One way to identify VMware systems is by their BIOS, there are a
> > number of free windows utilities that can query the BIOS for
> > information and even extract a copy of the BIOS from the VMware
> > system. The good news is that from within Windows NT/2000 you cannot
> > easily access the BIOS and send commands as direct access to the
> > hardware is blocked. You can however easily query the BIOS for
> > information from within the guest operating system you will be given
> > the following information:
> 
>